Some Tips to Get That Legacy Monster to Boot

Pointers and advice for getting back into OS 9, and into OS X…

 Home Site Map Recent Activities PM 8500 Project NMS Page Guest Book


A Few Tidbits and Useful Facts

While running in OS X you can change back to OS 9 by selecting it in XPostFacto (by running the XPostFacto application) or by restarting while holding the option key.

 

Remember while at startup a Mac can only see the type of keyboard and mouse it shipped with as that is the only thing its firmware understands. For most legacy systems that was an ADB keyboard and mouse so you must use one of those for any of these startup key combinations to work. The USB keyboard is recognized by the already loaded system late in the boot process and that is NOT at startup. Macs with built in USB ports can of course see USB keyboards on start.

 

Don’t use the Mac OS 9 Startup Disk control panel to try to change to an OS X disk. It doesn’t know how to set the firmware to start unsupported machines to start in X, and if it does know, if knows Apple doesn’t want it to do it, so it won’t

 

Some older versions of OS 9 don’t work with XPostFacto so XPostFacto won’t launch. Generally you need OS 9.1 or better. It is possible this has been fixed in newer XPostFacto releases, but I doubt it.

 

Unlike newer machines first generation PCI Apple machines do not provide easy access to their firmware from a startup key sequence. Older machines have older firmware that was not intended to be user assessable and so when you hold command-option-o-f on start you don’t get the open firmware prompt (well, you do, but its probably going out over a serial port).

 

First generation PCI Apple machines don’t provide the screen to select the startup drive when the user presses option on start. The older firmware on these Macs does support using option to specify an alternate boot source but doesn’t provide an open firmware encoded GUI to let you choose (that nice blue screen with big icons for drives you get if you hold option down while starting up newer Macs).

 

The Sonnet Cache Enabler (sonnetcache.kext) sometimes causes a crash (kernel panic) early in boot, and when you have problems it can seem like your are trapped if you don't know what to do.  See below to get out of this.

 

Tips from the OS X Install page

 

Put a recent copy of XPostFacto on ANY DRIVE you might ever boot from.  Also put any critical drivers or installers (like for a 3rd party Ethetnet card) you might need for a critical repair or reinstall.  It only takes a few MBytes.

 

Put a minimal bootable copy of OS 9.1 on every permanently attached drive unless you would prefer spend 10 hours trying to get booted again over giving up the 20 MBytes its takes on each drive.  This goes along with XPostFacto and key installers.

Either using a partition on your only drive or another internal drive put a minimal bootalbe (XPostFacto readied) OS X install on a second drive (You can have OS 9 AND OS X on the same drive).  Lots of utilities and bail out options only work from OS X and you can run any or all of the installers manually directly from the install CD IF your are booted into OS X from something.

Keep a copy of the latest OS X Combo (COMBO!!!) system updater on any drive that also has an working OS X install on it.  The combination updaters replace a large percentage of the core system and just running them often fixes any problems.  They can, of course, be run on the drive you are booted from and they are nice to have ready so you don't have to download a 100 M file.

 

If your don't have built-in USB and are using a aftermarket PCI USB card then install the OS 9 USB PCI card support into for OS 9 for any OS 9 install you might EVER boot from.  Without those drivers OS 9 will not see your USB ports, including a USB mouse and keyboard.  It really sucks to use XPostFacto to boot back into OS 9, get all the way started, realize your attached USB mouse and keyboard don't work, and then find out your ADB keyboard and/or mouse is broken or missing.  Even if you have them they won't work until you plug them in an start again, and if you don't have them YOU CAN'T EVEN RUN XPOSTFACTO TO GET BACK TO X.  If you just install the darned drivers your USB stuff will work in OS 9 and X and your will forget such a nightmare is even possible.  Do it now or you will forget!  It may be years before you need that ADB keyboard again.

 

The PM8500 currently has three internal drives one of which is partitioned into two logical drives, the main boot drive and two Archive and Backup drives (used for slightly different things).  All drives have OS 9.1, XPF, and key installers.  The main boot drive also has 9.2 and 10.3 installed (10.3 on the main drive really...eh, shutup).  The larger Archive drive has a big and little partition.   The big parition only has 9.1. The little partition also has 10.3 plus DiskWarrior and Norton Utilities.  The other Archive drive also only has 9.1 etc on it.

  

My Basic OS X Repair Algorithm

 

I am normally not a fan of mindless algorithms.  I have found that each problem is so unique that such rote approaches rarely work, but this is my exception. This procedure usually takes care of problems, even odd ones.  I of course mean problems not from obvious causes obvious like crashes just after installing a new scanner or new software package.

I attribute some of Bertha's OS longevity and stability to doing the following at the drop of a hat.  Remember Bertha ain't babied.  I rotate hardware out tof her like I change socks, just to test things.  I install lots and lots of software, write and test my buggy software, and try out all manor or Unix capabilities, like PPP serving, WebDAV, CGI's.  If I were going to have problems that would the system to have them but so far I had always recovered (Actually the problems are almost almost hardware.  OS X is solid).

This does require getting Norton Utilities, but it is worth it, AND it requires having whatever OS X version you are using also installed and bootable on a second drive. The secondary drive must also have Norton Utilities installed and working.


Bail Out and Repair Algorithm:

Use XPostFacto to boot to the your OS X drive and then do the following to your primary drive.

Unless you can't boot into anything get damned desperate before you reset the PRAM.  That will force the system to start up in OS 9 and that can be a real hassle.  If your are booting into OS X, avoid it. If you can't boot at all then it doesn't hurt and is part of the boot strategy.

 

Pointers and Tips for Getting Running Again

These are to be used when you cannot get booted at all, or booted back into OS 9 or OS X. These are not tips for normal use when you can shutdown, restart, and use the system as you desire. You normally never need to think about OS 9 during normal use, even on legacy machines. These are not general OS X booting tips and none of this applies to newer machines.

There is no “right” way to do this, it is just trying different things until it works (and trying the same things over and over). In other words, its trial and error.

 

The bottom line for getting back to OS X: If you are not able to start up in OS X, but you know it works (you were running in it, etc…) then you have to get back to a successful OS 9 boot that sees your OS X drive so you can use XPostFacto to set the system to restart in OS X. Legacy machines do not know how to start in OS X unless they are told and if they forget or the settings are corrupted they are NOT going to magically remember how to boot from on OS X drive (there might be some exceptions with machines XPostFacto has recently added that support some versions of X, like the Beige).


The goal is to boot up in OS 9 then go to OS X, not go straight to OS X. If you can boot from an OS 9.1 CD and then run XPostFacto from an attached hard drive then that is just fine.


Once you are booted in X you can shutdown and restart all you want and the computer should go straight back into OS X.

 

 

Some tricks to help get going again:

 

·      First try holding down option on start to see if you can get booted into OS 9.

 

·      If at any point you get booted up in anything, use the Startup Disk control panel to specify an OS 9 startup disk even if the OS 9 disk visible is not the one you want (Don’t pick an OS X disk, it won’t work). Older Macs start much more gracefully if they start from their set startup disk.

 

·      If you get started up in OS 9 and you can run XPostFacto to get back to X. That means if you can get to it in any way (its on mounted drive, on a floppy, on a CD, you can download it) than use it and you are finished.

 

·      If you get started up from a disk with an incompatible OS 9 install (9.0 and can’t run XpostFacto) then use that startup select a disk that has a compatible OS 9 system or at select the incompatible disk so you can shutdown and reconnect a compatible one. Always select some OS 9 startup disk before shutting down or just booting will remain a problem.

 

·      If the disk you need never mounted but is attached. This is usually not a problem. The first time you actually get booted into OS 9 it will often not have seen all the hardware. Just select a startup disk (at least the one currently used) in the Startup Disk control panel and restart. The disks almost almost always show up after the restart.

 

·      Just zapped the PRAM or pressed the CUDA switch and your monitor (connected a PCI video card) never comes up but you think the system is booting. It probably is. Sometimes you can wait until it finished starting, hit the keyboard power followed by return to shut it down and confirm it was working. The video is like missing drives, it will return on the next start. If you need to force it to restart (three finder solute, power button) that works just fine.

 

·      If holding option doesn’t work, try starting up holding command-option-shift-delete.

 

·      If none of that works startup holding (have these held BEFORE pressing power) command-option-p-r and reset the PRAM. Wait for at least 3 dings (some say 4, some say 2). Don’t be afraid to reset the PRAM again if you have made the rounds on attempts, or however often you need to).

 

·      Sometimes OS 9 just WILL NOT startup. Very early save yourself the coronary and pull All your non critical PCI cards and try starting in OS 9 that way. Remember you only need to get booted into OS 9 in a stable way just once and then you can run XPostFacto to get back into X. Sometimes I have disconnected EVERY drive but one (one with OS 9 on it) and got started that way.

 

·      If you disconnect drives and your OS X drive is one of them don’t worry. If that’s what it takes, that what it takes. Once you are started in OS 9 the first (AND I MEAN FIRST) thing your do is go straight to the Startup Disk control panel select OS 9 on that drive you are started from. Then you can shut down (like normal), connect up the OS X drive, and startup again (like normal). Now you can run XPostFacto and select your X drive.

 

·      Don’t connect or reinstall any hardware you removed to get into OS 9 until you are back into OS X (except for reconnected the target OS X drive). After you have selected the OS X drive using XPostFacto restart and confirm you are in OS X. If everything looks fine then shutdown (like normal), reconnect/install everything (or piecemeal if your are chicken), and restart like normal.

 

·      Added any new hardware, new memory, remove it/pull it.

 

·      Just re-cased your system, check the grounding. On a number of older (like first generation PCI) system the rear connects go through a sheetmetal insert that is bonded to the case. It you look at it that insert touches the bodies of all those connecters and touches the case meta and it there the ground those connectors. Loosing that grounds can have lots of bad problems including instability, freezes, crashes, or instability to boot. You need to ground those connectors. The easiest way is to use that insert in your new case and make it touches the relevant connectors, and the metal part of the case (this is usually easy). Make sure your newly re-used insert is not grounding out random parts of the motherboard in the new case.

 

·      Pressing the CUDA switch (the motherboard reset switch) sometimes helps and can resole unexplained/intractable hardware conflicts. The CUDA with is a small button, usually near the processor card. Unplug your machine and then press and hold the CUDA for 10 to 15 seconds but realize it will drain your PRAM battery. I always pull my battery while pressing the CUDA (those damned batteries are expensive.)

 

Still have problems using all the cards, rearrange their order and try again. This works much more often than you would think.

 

Keep trying and don’t give up! Eventually some combination of startup keys, PRAM zaps, and/or hardware changes will work…

 

Bailing out of Sonnet Cache Enabler problems - These panics are easy to spot being marked by a kernal panic early in boot (ugly scrolling text that end in something like "We are hanging here...").  If yourboot verbose (holding down command-v using your ADB keyboard on startup.) you will see mention of the sonnnetcache.kext just before the panic.


Kernel panics are not random.  If you just installed the Sonnet kext just before you panic then there you go.   I you have been running for months including restarting, have changed nothing about your installed system, and then have panics it is probably not Sonnet's kext.  Look for something you changed. Panics any other time but RIGHT AT BOOT are something else.

 

And for the really low times….

 

Sometimes when the firmware settings get really corrupted or the motherboard has taken a big hit nothing works leading the poor user to suspect motherboard is dead. Well, sometimes it is, but often it just needs to rest. Unplug the wall power, unplug any peripherals, and pull out the PRAM, and then let it set for a day, maybe two to let all the settings clear, and try again. This works regularly so don’t give up.

 

 



Counter Display Suspended by Page

Document made with Nvu

Created 5/13/2005

Modfied 5/20/2005